April 23, 2012

Big Ag Industry Rallies To Support New Pro-Child Labor Legislation

The U.S. Cattlemen's Association posted this picture of a recent meeting with Congressman Cliff Stearns.

Last year, two teenagers handling a large grain auger had their legs severed while working at the Zaloudek Grain Co. in Oklahoma. The Department of Labor (DOL) proposed rules that might have prevented this tragedy. The rules, designed to curb dangerous child labor in agriculture, were finally unveiled last year after a long delay. The labor changes would preventchildren from working in harsh conditions, including operating heavy machinery.

But as Republic Report noted earlier this year, agricultural industry lobbyists have worked aggressively to cut the DOL’s ability to implement this regulation. We showed how Rep. Denny Rehberg (R-MT), backed by campaign contributions and lobbying support from the farm lobby, circulated a letter to undercut the child labor rules. Now, Senator John Thune (R-SD) has a bill — euphemistically called the Preserving America’s Family Farm Act — that would revoke the DOL’s authority to prevent children from working on farms in dangerous conditions, including in manure pits.

Politico reports that the Cattlemen’s Association, which represents the beef industry and its corporate partners, including Cargill Meat Solutions and McDonald’s Corporation, has sent its representatives to Capitol Hill to support Thune’s pro-child labor bill:

CATTLEMEN TAKING THEIR BEEFS TO D.C.: The U.S. Cattlemen’s Association is in the midst of a lobbying push on Capitol Hill, with members from California, North Dakota, Montana, Wyoming and Virginia meeting this week with numerous congressional offices and administration officials, a member of the group tells PI. A couple of groups of burly guys in cowboy hats and suits could be seen Wednesday walking the halls of the Capitol. The 2012 farm bill and the Preserving America’s Family Farm Act are prime lobbying targets, as is supporting labeling of meat’s country of origin.

This week, the Senate released quarterly lobbying reports. The filings reveal other agriculture lobbying interests working to promote Thune’s bill and the overall effort to gut the DOL’s ability to enforce child labor standards. The National Milk Producers Federation spent $130,502 lobbying during the first three months of this year, listing opposition to the youth labor regulations as one of their objectives.

Thune’s bill continues to pick up co-sponsors. Last month, the DOL, under intense industry pressure, said that it would redraft the child labor rules.

Unfortunately, it appears that children who might benefit from the labor regulations do not have the political resources to push back against the lobbying might of industrial farms.

RELATED: E-Mail Reveals Coordination Between Congressman Rehberg’s Pro-Child Labor Letter, Big Ag Lobby

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  • CatKinNY

    Ironically, the legislation in question does not apply to family farms, merely to big agribusiness operations, which I doubt rely much on child labor. After all, Conagra isn’t going to entrust one of it’s half a million combines to a 15 year old. I guess the right wing really is sincere in it’s desire to return to the glory days of the 19th century, when you literally took their life in your hands every time you fed your baby a bottle of milk. That’s how it was here before food purity and safety regulations made eating in America something other than a game of Russian roulette; that’s how it is in China now, come to think of it. Part of me almost hopes they get everything they want; a few thousand dead babies would do this country a lot of good. A large segment of the population is so stupid and ignorant that they genuinely regard regulations that guard their health and safety as onerouse on ‘job creators’; let a few thousand of their kids die – it would improve the gene pool, and it would be fun to watch the reaction from these heavily armed mofos when Fox and Rush try to justify it as the price of producing ‘affordable’ formula.

    • Tzack

      I would suspect your farming experience is limited to having driven past one….. and… it does apply to family farms…. I started driving tractors about the same time I got my first rifle.. when I was about 6 yo… Still have all my fingers and ain’t never shot no one. Don’t know how us stupid farm kids survived back in the 50’s before education became so sophisticated and well regulated by the government… Butchered our own meat, grew a garden and drank milk right off the cow…. My God, how did we ever survive??!!! Pretty amazing for the “stupid and ignorant” wouldn’t you say??

      • CatKinNY

        The legislation in question does NOT apply to family farms; it contains specific language that allows the family of farmers to do whatever they want. Having been woken this morning at 5:30 AM by my neighbors tractor running 30 feet from my bedroom window, I can assure you your assumptions are completely unfounded. The antiregulatory enthusiasts in this country are morons, plain and simple, who are championing a return to city air that you can see and taste (and choke on), rivers that can catch on fire but can’t support any living animals, and bald eagle eggs that crack when the momma tries to keep them warm. Remember those days? Do you really want to go back? I’m a veteran who has nothing against guns, but doesn’t think that we should have laws that make it easy for anyone to purchase automatic weapons and 30 round clips; if you don’t make or sell weapons and ammo, but you think anybody should be able to walk in and make that sort of purchase without a real backround check, you are cheerleading for schitzophrenics at Virginia Tech to kill dozens, and are a moron. The small family farmers that are my neighbors agree with me. The orgy of deregulation that the GOP is pushing will be very good for big business, but very bad for the rest of us, and anyone who allows themselves to be distracted by bright, shiny objects lobbed at them by the Chamber of Commerce, ALEC, the NRA and Fox News is indeed stupid, ignorant, lazy and a traitor.

        • Tzack

          My goodness! Who pee’d in your Wheaties? Sorry but I have to stop laughing long enough to try a reply. If you are not involved in government or politics, you are missing your calling. Half facts, sensationalism, name calling and never meeting a regulation you didn’t like certainly would qualify you. I really can’t decide if you are for real or not. If your diatribe wasn’t an attempt at humor or something, you should consider a vacation or perhaps some medication. Good luck. Stupid, ignorant and lazy perhaps.. but not a traitor…..

          • CatKinNY

            Since you’ve admitted to being stupid, ignorant and lazy, I’ll go out on a limb here and assume that you are unaware of the push to roll back child labor laws in statehouses all over the country. The proponents claim that they desire to teach children the great American work ethic while offering “flexibility” to business owners, since they all agree that the newly eligible ‘little workers’ would not be subject to the minimum wage. I hope you can stop laughing long enough to imagine yourself as a laid off adult competing for a job at Wal Mart with a 15 year old who they could legally pay less than they had to offer you. Thanks for your suggestion that I might benefit from psychiatric medication, but as an RN, I know there really isn’t any chemical cure for the anger I feel at what has happened to my country over the last 30 years or so. There is a cure for what ails you: a newspaper a day keeps the propagandists at bay. As to who pissed in my Wheaties – Paul Ryan, and every commentator in the land who is unwilling to call him out. We live in a country where 400 individuals now have more wealth than the poorest 150 million Americans combined, and he wants to cut food stamps to pay for MORE tax cuts for the wealthy. Why is it that the conservative prescription for getting poor people to work harder is to cut their benefits, while the method for gettting the wealthy to work harder is to increase theirs? Well, at least I can take solace in the fact that Paul’s breakfast was equally contaminated, because the Catholic church took a gargantuan piss all over him this morning. Excommunication should come next.

          • Jeff the former child farmer

            Hardly a “right wing” source, a Purdue professor analyzed the legislation this way [see link below]:

            “While the Agricultural Hazardous Occupations Order was written in an effort to protect children from dangerous situations, IT COULD PREVENT MANY YOUNG PEOPLE FROM WORKING ON FAMILY FARMS OR PARTICIPATING IN AGRICULTURE-RELATED EDUCATIONAL PROGRAMS.” [snip]

            “Many small, family farms are incorporated because of the tax advantages,” he said. “BUT WHEN A FARM IS INCORPORATED, PARENTS ARE CONSIDERED A CORPORATE ENTITY AND THEY WOULD NOT BE COVERED BY THE PARENTAL EXEMPTION.””

            I got my 1st “job” at 7 years old – selling greeting cards door-to-door based on an advertisement I saw in Boy’s Life magazine (Boy Scouts).

            I survived and thrived.

            When I was 9 years old, I started bailing hay stacking by hand and driving a single cylinder John Deer tractor – pulling and parking tandem wagons filled to the height of telephone wires – up and down hills (if you’ve ever done this, then you know the challenges when all of the pickup and stacking is done by hand).

            I survived and thrived.

            I got my 1st motorcycle when I was 9 and car when I was 12 (it was dead in our driveway and my mother said that if I got it running it was mine – note: I didn’t drive it on the roads until I had my permit).

            I survived and thrived.

            I paid for much of my college performing low-wage farming tasks during a time when I had no other options in the Carter era in Michigan (except maybe selling drugs). I survived and thrived.

            Add in shotguns, snowmobiles, double-clutch non-power assisted trucks, and so on… I can’t BEGIN to explain how self sufficient, financially responsible, resourceful, productive, and physically strong I became.

            I survived and thrived.

            Government says that it wants to save us from anything “harmful” (typical lawyer-think that defies all logic and science) – except that it doesn’t save us from DEPENDENCY ON GOVERNMENT AND THEIR CORPORATE PARTNERS IN CRIME.

            Go fly a kite, mind your own family and business, and leave those of us with a relatively well-functioning brain and ordinary ambition the HELL alone for cryin’ out loud! Stop regulating the milk I drink (I like raw since the enzymes and vitamins are still intact – and yes, I’ve milked a HELLAVA lotta’ cows over the years with MUCH lower bacteria count from raw vs factory pasteurized/homogenized), the land I own, and the children I rear and love more than any corrupt, bureaucrat ever could.


          • CatKinNY

            For the purposes of the act, ‘work’ would be defined as activity for which you are paid, on the books, so if a farmer wanted his 15 year old son to to do a particular chore, he could avoid running afoul of the law by not registering his son as a laborer in his books and simply continuing to pay him his allowance, just like your dad did with you while you did farm labor or worked by his side as he repaired engines.

            Selling greeting cards door to door, or Girl Scout cookies, or having a paper route, or baby sitting, or shoveling snow, or any of the myriad things that kids do for money are not covered by any kind of law, and no one is proposing that they should be. Unless participants in 4H are being paid by the hour, this law will not effect them either.

            I like raw milk too; if you do a little research, you’ll find that the forces trying to make the selling of raw milk legal at farmers markets are strictly coming from the left. If you do a little more research, you’ll find that the movement to inspect and certify food as safe came from poisonous milk that killed a lot of babies in the 19th century. That’s a bit of research you really ought to do; it would help you to understand that regulations exist for reasons other than the curtailing of your personal freedom.

            As for your Purdue Ag professor, what in the world makes you think that he’s not trying to mislead you to further the interest of big agricultural interests, at whom this legislation is aimed, which provide research grants to Purdue? Any time someone uses extrapaltory rather than declarative words – ‘could’, rather than ‘will’ – it should set off alarm bells, because nine times out of ten, they are trying to get you to break your own neck jumping to conclusions, as you did.

            It sounds like you had an idyllic childhood, despite growing up in a country chock full of regulations aimed at preventing businesses from poisoning you, or your fishing hole. You might want to remember that next time someone tries to wind you up to fight their battles for them. After all, growing up on a small family farm, you aught to know better than anyone that what’s good for ConAgra isn’t neccessarily good for you.

          • Tzack

            First, you are suggesting that Jeff breaks Federal law by falsifying statements. Why don’t you check out the penalty for such actions? If there is a loophole right now, you can be confident it will be closed and penalties enforced later.
            There is far more to farming and life than observing a tractor 30′ outside your bedroom window. Don’t you have zoning? Are you certain it wasn’t a lawn mower? Tell me oh knowledgeable one how the wonderful farm program you tout would allow corn prices to fluctuate between $2.00/bu and $8.00/bu over a period of a few years? Gee, could it be that they like paying enormous subsidies to insure the farmer is dependent upon the government and its whims?
            By the way, your fascination with Con Agra is poorly founded as well. Any one involved in farming knows there are far larger virtually invisible players in the commodity market. Folks that control the world food market. Co Agra is a minor player at best.
            Your ignorance and propensity for inflammatory statements laden with half truths shows through your diatribes. Your comments on guns and assault rifles are perfect examples. Excluding the murders in Mexico with assault weapons supplied by our own astute government folks, I suspect more people were murdered by stabbing, strangulation or perhaps pure boredom listening to folks like you. Any street punk is smart enough to go for a cheap easily concealable pistol over a bulky hard to use assault rifle.
            You speak of Columbine and such. How about Gary Weaver’s son shot in the back by government agents using fully automatic assault weapons? Or the government “sniper” who managed to pull off a great head shot on Weavers wife while she was holding a baby? A couple hundred heavily armed agents with a armored personnel carrier to take out a man, his wife, 3 children and a teenaged nephew. What was his crime again? Oh yeah, he was succored into selling a sawed off shotgun to a couple of undercover agents. Charges he was ultimately acquitted of. And the government agents having killed the two innocents? Decorated and promoted.
            Take same AG and Waco. A hundred heavily armed agents and a tank to take out a religious fruitcake they could have picked up in town or starved out. Oh, forgot about the 150 or so other men, women and children that were toasted. Oh yeah, but they were religious nuts that had to be stopped. I sleep so much better knowing my government has saved me from the likes of Weaver and Koresh.
            Add in the deaths as a result of the the fast and furious debacle and it will be years before deaths as a result of civilian use of assault weapons catch up. Appears to me the odds of being killed by an assault rifle wielding government agent are far higher than by one in the hands of a citizen.
            As mentioned before you are of the ilk that has never met a regulation you didn’t like. Souls such as you so fearful of life as to need protection from every possible threat have my sympathy. You willingly give up any number of personal freedoms to be protected from life. Were you in Europe at the time this great country was settled, you would still be waiting for a free ticket, a job and health care before you would take the trip. Oh and heaven forbid, there were many guns here too. Wasn’t there a revolution or something? Suckle while you can my friend. That great sow will roll over at some point in time.

          • CatKinNY

            Interesting that you chose NOT to reply to my post to you, but to inject yourself into a conversation with another. Don’t want to address that little problem of 400 individuals having more wealth than the poorest 150 million, while the GOP’s prescription is to give them more tax cuts, do you? I don’t blame you; it’s patently moronic.

            No, it wasn’t a lawnmower; my property backs up to a farm and some idiot put this house right up at the top where the view was best without considering the noise factor; no deer last night, but two the night before. I’m not obsessed with Con Agra; I use them as shorthand for factory farms – I would prefer that they not have such a price advantage in the market over operations like yours that take good care of the land and any adjoining water. Monsanto and DuPont are indeed bigger players, but Con Agra and it’s ilk are not exactly gnats either, as you know perfectly well. I’d love to get rid of the Farm Bill altogether; paying people not to grow things sticks in my craw too; as a small organic operator, you’ve made yourself immune to it, and I applaud you for doing so. The farm state legislators won’t hear of it; cheer up, though, it’s tax dollars from us blue staters that fund this welfare program for red states. Commodity prices for agricultural products have always swung wildly (research the Grange movement if you don’t believe me), and it’s only gotten worse since the Commodities Future Modernization Act of 2000; think of it next time you fill up your gas tank. And no, I wasn’t suggesting that Jeff break the law, merely that he carry on as usual.

            On to guns: Your suspicion that more people were killed by stabbing etc than by firearms missed by a mile, according to the FBI. In 2009, 67% of all murders in the US were committed using firearms. And you are aware that that incredibly stupid ATF program you referred to was carried out because most of the automatic weapons captured by Mexican authorities were traced to straw purchases, mostly in TX and AZ, made possible by our non existant gun laws, right? I am a veteran, and loved my M16, but they didn’t issue me one for deer hunting. Automatic weapons are weapons of war, their only purpose being the killing of people, and I don’t want people to be able to walk into a store, or gunshow, and walk out with one 15 minutes later. Too often that person is crazy – Virginia Tech, the Giffords shooting, or sells it to someone who is – Columbine, or sells it to a criminal, who uses it on cops and soldiers, in this country or Mexico.

            Randy Weaver, and all the other heavily armed white supremacist separatists, had better lay down their arms and come out when the government has them surrounded; otherwise, they are committing suicide by cop. You don’t like the US? Leave. Do you think the authorities should have left Ted Kozinsky, the Unabomber, alone? Waco, I agree, could have and should have been handled differently. I lived in Texas when that went down, and they should have waited them out rather than trying to smoke them out. On the other hand, they waited for days, and Koresh remained defiant. Religious cults have fairly lethal track records world wide, whether your’e talking those lunatics in Japan with ricin in the Tokyo subways, or a similar group in Switzerland, to our home grown People’s Temple to those Hale Bopp idiots in San Diego. Incidents like these might not spring to mind for you and me, but you can bet your ass they do for the FBI.

            As for the founding of this country, I have six DAR pins; how many do you have from the Sons of the American Revolution? The first of my ancestors arrived here in 1607, and I’m the descendant of combatants in every fight this country has fought, from King Phillip’s War to Korea; my cousins served in Vietnam, I was called up for Desert Storm, and we put one of my nephews on a plane to go back to Afghanistan for the start of the fighting season last week. None of us are career soldiers, sucking on the government tit with that generous retirement package after doing our twenty, just doing our bit out of patriotism.

            I agree with you about the complexity of much of government regulation, and sympathize with your problems with forms as a small contractor; one of my brothers is now an independant contractor and he was stumped by the paper work involved in paying an employee last week. Thanks to those years in the Army and a course I once took to be a Legal Nurse Consultant, I was able to sift through it all in two hours, but I still ran it past someone down at the SBA to make sure I got it right, a nice fellow who told me he’d’ve been happy to do it for me. I’d like to see all of it, especially the tax code, pared down so that a reasonably intelligent HS grad could parse it themselves. Unfortunately, what I see happening is that regulation increasingly serves the interests of very narrrow, and mostly very wealthy, special interests. Those 400 individuals didn’t get that rich without the collusion of bought politicians. But the regulations that made that posssible are not the ones under fire; no, it’s regulations that make life difficult for polluters, that allow workers to have collective bargaining, that makes it easy to vote, that are under fire. I don’t like the race to the bottom for the vast majority that we are on; I want the middle class back.

            Are you really sure that the unions killed Detroit? The strength of all unions, the UAW included, were greatly reduced by PATCO, and that was when? 82? 83? The Canadian plants, which had identical UAW contracts (with one important distinction) to their American counterparts, remained profitable despite top managements boneheaded decision to bet the farm on trucks and SUVs and cede the non gas guzzler market to imports (and Ford). That distinction was health care, which Canadian workers had covered by their own government. I know you don’t want to hear this, but our lack of national health care puts American businesses at an unfair competitive disadvantage, not to mention making those of us who can afford it pay twice as much as our closest first world nation, and with worse outcomes for the average patient. If you’re rich, this is the best place on earth to get sick; if you’re not, you’d be better off anywhere else in the first world, simply because it will not bankrupt you. I think health care is a right; it’s hard to pursue happiness without it.

            I am not aware of sucking on any government teats, other than using the infrastructure that 100% of Americans, yourself included, use. I’m sure you’ll be more than happy to correct me.

          • Tzack

            Actually Cat you and I may sort of have something in common. I realize you and Chris Matthews get a tingle in your thighs every time you see our President. I get more like an itch in my right foot wanting to plant it and the Red Wing work boot attached somewhere it may do some good…….

          • Tzack

            Thank-you Jeff. You have eloquently replied to Cat in a way that I could not. So very well put but unfortunately probably beyond the comprehension of many.
            My story is very similar to yours. Growing up on a family dairy farm where the job was 24/7. Where all in the family worked for a common goal. Menial jobs that would make Walmart look like heaven followed. I went on to work in the industrial world in a field where dealings with people such as the EPA, OSHA and were almost daily. Involved in the automotive industry I also had the pleasure of watching the greed of unions and the ineptness of management virtually destroy the once proud and profitable American auto industry.
            Growing weary of dealing with the never ending regulations, the arrogant, ignorant officials administering them and self serving corporate upper management I walked away and started a contracting business. Again my farm work ethic served well. With hard work and fair treatment of customers the business became a successful albeit small family contracting company.
            The business was fun save for dealings with idiotic restrictions from OSHA , over zealous inspectors with government training, no real experience and things like FHA loans where every meaningless form had to submitted in triplicate. The best example came when I had a loan kicked back because I had not submitted a document stated I had signed a previous document saying I had signed a third previous document stating I would comply with all National, State and Local codes.
            Building in areas use where union contractors were required was another trial. Paying 2-3x of going non-union rate for people that came to job site at 9:00, took two breaks and 1 1/2 hrs for lunch then left at 3:00 was appalling. By the way, hourly rate was paid door to door.
            After about 15 years, an injury took me away from the the business for the better part of a year. As if it needs mentioning , there was no government help there. The short story there is that by the time I returned the business was in the toilet and my wife of 25 years decided she liked a realtor in town better than I. A divorce and loss of the business followed. We did not take a chapter 11 but over a period of time paid our subs and suppliers. For the first time in my life I applied for unemployment. After 30 odd years of paying, I received two checks. Shortly after the second check I received a request to return the second check. Since I was a principal in a corporation I was only eligible for one check. That was 17 years ago and I have never returned the check. Suspect they will come for me some day wanting the $400 and $10,000 or so in penalty and interest but…
            After that experience I admit to falling into a hole for a while. Wine and women were the orders of the day. After a couple years I finally got back on track and worked at a variety of menial jobs including my first ever true hourly jobs. A stint in corporate sales followed until walking away and returning to the family farm. I took what was left of the family farm out of the CRP program and returning it to production as a certified organic. At this late stage the return to the farm has been the best single thing to happen to me in my life. Dealing with the honesty of Mother Nature and minimum contact with any government programs or restrictions has been a pleasure. Organic certifications can be complicated and frustrating at times but…. the vast majority of certification agency employees are former or part time farmers that know their jobs from the bottom up. They are helpful and display none of the arrogance of the typical government wonk. Organic Valley’s home office is in a little town nearby. Visiting their office is a pleasure. Their people are courteous helpful and… knowledgeable. Many are also part time farmers and “walk the walk”.
            As I write this I am looking out over my fields. The barley is emerging, the red clover is 8-10 inches tall and my corn land is plowed. The birds are scouring the fields for worms and insects. The doe and her two yearling fawns visited the backyard last night. The hours are sometimes long and the work hard but…. I am home. It is a feeling of accomplishment and contentment that people like our friend Cat suckling from that great government sow will never feel. One day that great government sow will roll over and suffocate those firmly attached to her teats. Until that time frankly they all can kiss my ass.
            With your permission I would like to post your reply to Cat on our farm Facebook page. Thanks again and good luck to you.

          • Jeff the former child farmer

            Tzack, feel free to quote anything I post here.

            Best wishes, I know totally understand what you expressed in this post.

            Keep marveling at your fields and know that whatever beauty you see now is only a shadow of what’s to come.

    • Jeff the former child farmer

      “For the purposes of the act, ‘work’ would be defined as activity for which you are paid, on the books, so if a farmer wanted his 15 year old son to to [sic] do a particular chore, HE COULD AVOID RUNNING AFOUL OF THE LAW BY NOT REGISTERING HIS SON AS A LABORER IN HIS BOOKS AND SIMPLY CONTINUING TO PAY HIM HIS ALLOWANCE, just like your dad did with you while you did farm labor or worked by his side as he repaired engines.” [emphasis added]

      First, my dad died when I was 9 and therefore had no part in helping me to get jobs on local farms.

      Second, I never worked on a family farm since we didn’t have one, I never once received an “allowance” from my employer or my mother who expected me to perform helpful activities around the house without being told. So, even if your assertion that family members are excluded from this bill – the fact is that farmers have expenses and people under the age of 18 work on corporate farms. The shield of a corporation (whether sub-chapter S or C-corp) is to preserve the individual property rights of the family owners.

      • It would run counter to everything we see coming out of congress and the White House with carefully crafted ambiguous wording of bills (e.g. it’s not a tax, it’s a “fee-like” tax that we call a fee or tax depending on who we have to lie to).
      • It would defy the clear history of an ever expanding interpretation of the constitution and legislative edicts (the proverbial “foot in the door approach”), like Pelosi’s surprisingly candid “we need to pass the bill before we know what’s in it” comment, and the interpretation of the “general welfare” and commerce clauses that Madison said was strictly, unambiguously for national defense [read Madison’s Federalist Paper #42 here: http://www.foundingfathers.info/federalistpapers/fed42.htm%5D

      “you’ll find that the forces trying to make the selling of raw milk legal at farmers markets are STRICTLY coming from the left.”

      To Libertarians, constitutionalists, organic farmers, coops, and so forth are all from the “left”? Just like the left is all for “free speech”, unless it comes from a non-leftist source on AM radio.

      What a hootin’ whopper! Way to build up “cred”.

      “If you do a little more research, you’ll find that the movement to inspect and certify food as safe came from poisonous milk that killed a lot of babies in the 19th century.”

      While I may not be able to match your condescending attitude, I’ll be more than happy to match my direct and indirect knowledge of the farming or auto industries to yours any day. And based on the lack of factual or practical information in your posts, I doubt it will be very close.

      Let’s talk about TODAY, not what was maybe needed before microbial testing was widely available. Like I said, I was able to obtain raw milk and consume the delicious nectar – knowing full well based on how it’s produced from field to fridge – that the bacteria count was a FRACTION of what I would get from factory pasteurized milk.

      Why don’t YOU do a little research and find out that TODAY, the facilities of local farmers are being raided by “authorities” at the point of a gun, their records and equipment are confiscated, and they are subsequently buried by the unlimited resources of government lawyers. Use your favorite search engine and put in “local farm raid at point of gun”, or similar key words.

      I’m from the government and I’m here to help. Yeppers, it’s all about keeping babies alive.

      “Any time someone uses extrapaltory rather than declarative words – ‘could’, rather than ‘will’ – it should set off alarm bells, because nine times out of ten, they are trying to get you to break your own neck jumping to conclusions, as you did.”

      Have you ever had to work with lawyers who have actually litigated cases before a judge and jury? I have worked with dozens of top corporate lawyers reviewing and crafting hundreds of contracts that would stand the scrutiny of judges and juries alike. “Could” is without a doubt, the largest concern of potential litigants because that’s what bites you in the ass big time.

      I could go on picking apart your posts, but I won’t amount to a hill of beans (pun intended).

      So, spout your theories, and I’ll stick to my facts.

      • Jeff the former child farmer

        Sorry I deformed the thread. This was supposed to be to CatKinNY’s reply to my comment below… 🙁

  • FedUp

    I think there should be a ‘What an Idiot!’ button.

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  • xboxershorts

    This comment is directed at Jeff and Tzack,

    The proposed rule changes came into being in response to what really is a valid lapse in the existing rules. The 2 teenagers who were permanently disabled at a large corporate agriculture concern…maybe shouldn’t have been allowed to operate a large machine capable of tearing them limb from limb. And these 2 boys will now be wards of the state for the remainder of their lives at some significant taxpayer expense.

    You both bring up valid objections to these proposed rules, but rather than propose your preferred changes in the proposal to prevent Big Agriculture from turning our children into wards of the state, you offer no alternative but instead immerse us in your own personal stories of triumph over adversity. And then resort to mockery and name calling. Which is counterproductive.

    Is there an alternative to the DoL rules as proposed that you believe would prevent Large Agricultural Interests from turning our children into permanent wards of the state?

    From this outsider’s perspective, your responses seem condescending and rude and have the ultimate effect of shutting down the discussion completely, rather than looking for a solution.

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